Late last month, Coleridge & Parry principal Vincent Fergusson called in the media, including television, at the St Peter secondary school to send a national message about ill-discipline and deviance.
There seven students – four boys and three girls aged 14 to 17 years – were made to scrub the ceiling, seats and sides of a Transport Board bus they had vandalized a couple of weeks earlier.
Since that time, while he has received plenty of praise for his actions, a few commentators have questioned whether he went far enough in “punishing” the children.
In today’s Big Interview, he speaks with SUNDAY?SUN?Editor Bryan Walker in further defence of his actions, examines the reasons behind some students’ deviant behaviour, and discusses the challenges schools are facing with today’s generation of children and their parents.
What prompted you to take such unconventional action?
Fergusson: We’ve been trying to instil in our students consequences for their actions . . . . I also thought this was an opportunity for this school to send a message to the other 21 secondary schools, and the primary schools, that it is not wise and sensible to destroy or vandalize Crown property.
If they are that skilful, we will encourage that skill in school, but certainly not on the buses or the walls of the school, or in the bus stand or van stand.
Have you received support from teachers and also other principals?
Fergusson: I had spoken to some of the teachers before and there was some ambivalence initially. I explained to staff the national importance, that this was the same thing the Minister of Education Mr Jones had been speaking about for quite some time . . . . The fact that we are spending so much money on education and spending again to repair buildings, to repair furniture in schools, to repair the buses . . . . And the students themselves, they don’t pay at point of entry, so they don’t see a cost to them. I thought that we should take a national stance on this.
And all your teachers were on board with this measure?
Fergusson: Yes. I announced it at the morning assembly [and] I could see a show of support. It was not done to shame the students, but to send a message that if you vandalize, if you do things that are wrong and you are caught, you will be punished.
What about principals of other schools?
Fergusson: I have received many calls from principals supporting [it]. Some were even enquiring what chemicals were used to restore the bus, because you could see from the television shots that the bus was badly vandalized; but in the end it was as clean as a brand new bus.
Clearly this problem is not unique to our students at Coleridge & Parry. This form of indiscriminate vandalism is common across the country.
Since the incident, what has been the reaction of the student body?
Fergusson: Very positive. They have become, to use their word, informers.
The moment that a child is undertaking a task that seems to be bordering on vandalism, they are reporting it.
We are quietly getting information on other little infractions. They are more aware of the consequences of vandalizing school property and certainly the public transport.
Some people may have felt that you went a bit too far in trying to embarrass the children, especially by calling in the cameras. What has been the public reaction?
Fergusson: Some [people] didn’t think that we had done enough; but school is not all about punishment. School is about instructions, and those instructions are to guide the individual and get him into the habit of practising following instructions. And if they don’t follow these instructions, then this is what could happen to you.
It doesn’t necessarily have to be physical corporal punishment, but it might be embarrassment, shame.
Has any further action been taken against those student offenders?
Fergusson: Not from a punishment point of view, but they have been counselled. I’ve spoken to them sternly and I don’t think they will do it again.
Why do you think so?
Fergusson: Because they were really embarrassed. [Even] students who only knew about it when they saw it on television said they were embarrassed, as students of the school, to hear our school being called like that. Those who viewed it laughed at them . . . .
We have it posted on the notice board for all students entering the office to read and we are asking them to avoid that embarrassment. And that is a massive punishment. Should they do it again, we will come down on them with a heavy hammer.
Are parents on board with your methods?
Fergusson: Definitely. The parents of those children were involved before [the cleaning episode]. We brought them in and talked to them. Some parents walked away because they could not believe that the child would do such a stupid thing.
Parents generally believe that kind of action, or even firmer action sometimes, is needed in the schools, because they don’t always believe that students are punished for their misdeeds.
What do you think is causing this and other types of ill-discipline among our students?
Fergusson: No doubt our society is more lawless and reckless than it used to be. I think it is [also] because of movement of people.
Once upon a time this school, for example, was one for northern country boys whose outlook was different from that of those from Bridgetown and the Greater Bridgetown areas. Now we bus quite a few of those pupils down to the school.
In many instances, those students are the [ones] who get involved in aggressive activity, or that kind of vandalism or guile in making other individuals’ property [theirs].
But that kind of “movement” as you say has been going on for years. What’s making it any different now?
Fergusson: Because there are many more now. When I went to school here, the majority of students were from rural Barbados – St Peter, St James, St Lucy and St Andrew. Now we have students coming from all the way in Silver Sands.
Then explain to us how they are making this difference. Aren’t they all the same type of children coming from the same type of homes and same environment in this small country?
Fergusson: No, not at all. There is a significant difference between the outlook of rural Barbados and the outlook of urban Barbados or Bridgetown. There is a more material approach to life when you live in the urban corridor, whereas in the rural areas you tend to suffer more for what you want.
I remember that from being at school. To me, it is even more glaring now; these [from the Bridgetown areas] are the students who give the most trouble when it comes to ill-discipline.
Some could say you are pointing fingers at their children because of the areas from which they come?
Fergusson: I think parents know that. I am not looking at it from a class point of view. I am saying that this is a reality, that those students tend to gravitate towards material goods. I saw that not only here at Coleridge & Parry, but at the last school I worked at [Combermere].
Some past and current educators say today’s children are more difficult to handle – not as disciplined, dedicated and respectful as years ago. What is your take on that?
Fergusson: Yes, because the novelty of education is not as fresh as it used to be, as say when I was in school in the early years of free secondary education. Your parents wanted you to be in school to do well, leave school and go on to higher things. I don’t see that as the thing now because students can taste success without education.
That wasn’t the case before. We can now taste success, legally, without pursuing a university degree or going to selective higher education . . . .
In addition, there is clearly more ill-discipline particularly in the newer secondary schools . . . .
Where does parenting fit into all of this?
Fergusson: One of the challenges we have in this country is that it’s so easy to have children but [some] persons don’t think of what will happen after the child is born. We face that every day as principals. You see the need for parenting in children who are not necessarily deviant, but who are not maximising their God-given gifts because their parents aren’t guiding them.
The children are also not as long-suffering as we were, and [they get this] from the parents. They get what they want. Some young people have everything that the adults have – their own laptop, their own TV in their room, their own phone . . . .
So in some instances, the adults have created that problem for their own children by giving them more than they had, and that is in material things. They didn’t teach them to wait, work hard, set targets . . . .
Some parents are not interested in if the child gets to school early or not. There is also the lack of funds, as sometimes the family is not working. Sometimes a lot of children come to school without lunch and you have to find ways and means to assist them.
Are the old values and morals once hammered home in school being pushed aside today to cater to the academic demands of the curriculum?
Fergusson: I don’t think so. The teachers of today are better trained than the teachers of my time. The syllabus is not any wider than before, and teachers have every opportunity to teach morals and values in the classroom. They may not do an entire lesson on it, but in every single subject area you can find an opportunity to teach moral education.
We also remind them here that they are the most fortunate black children in the world and they should make the best use of that.
Can we continue to sustain this free education model? Should those who can pay be made to?
Fergusson: I am not in full support of that. Let’s say I have benefited from free education and have worked hard to achieve. Another individual who sat next to me [in school] did not work hard and squandered his opportunities with free education. Now I have to pay for my children because I am earning and he is not earning as much as I am, and he gets it free? Is that fair? Should I be penalized?
What would you like to see happening nationally to help our young people?
Fergusson: I would like to see more people giving back. If you received five years of education, you should be giving back something to the society. There can be homework programmes after school; they can also give back monetarily to the school they attended.
Any final advice to parents, students and the nation as a whole?
Fergusson: Parents must keep control of their children. They must know what they are doing and ask the child to account for what happened at school. Look into the child’s books to see what is happening; study the reports carefully . . . . Children should try to remain children as long as possible, stay in school and work hard. Don’t try to grow up too quickly.
And for the wider society, we need to support the children – they are the ones who we expect to carry on this Barbados.
Teach them what is moral and sound and what will stand the test of time.