Let’s put people at centre

New Caribbean Community (CARICOM) Secretary General Irwin LaRocque visited Barbados last week for a series of meetings. The three-day visit followed similar missions to St Kitts and Nevis, and Antigua and Barbuda, and saw him interacting with the private sector, media and regional institutions.
The Dominican-born LaRocque, who became Secretary General in August, took time out to speak to NATION Associate Editor Ricky Jordan last Thursday on some burning issues facing Barbados and the region.
 
Earlier this year, Barbados faced an immigration issue with Jamaica, in the person of Shanique Myrie, who made certain formal accusations. How do you recommend that such issues be handled?
LaRocque: The best way, I think, that the two governments have tried to address the issue is to try to arrive at a conclusion bilaterally. But out of that, we must recognize there is a greater need throughout the community to sensitize those persons who are working at the ports of entry. There is need for greater sensitivity and sensitization to what it is we’re trying to achieve, and maybe there can be a more humane way of doing the things which need to be done.
We recognize fully that every member state has a right to secure its borders; that is a given in every single one of the member states. It is enshrined in the CARICOM Treaty that public health, safety and morals are among the things that will not be compromised by any other agreement that any member state enters into.
But I think sometimes it’s how you do things, and it’s not unique to one country or another. We have been charged with the responsibility, along with CARICAD [Caribbean Centre for Development Administration], which is located here in Barbados, to do some workshops with immigration officials, customs officers and also security officers who man the ports of entry. I’m advised that such training has taken place and, based on the feedback, very good training.
It’s interesting, you know. I once heard an immigration officer at a meeting explaining his own plight at trying to enter a member state as a citizen of CARICOM; so he became aware of how his colleagues would treat others. That’s all I will say about that.
 
You met here with Prime Minister Freundel Stuart and separately with the private sector. What came out of those meetings?
LaRocque: Both were excellent. The meeting with the Prime Minister was a private one, which is what I do when I go into the member states.
I believe I had a very good discussion with him. I don’t want to delve into details, but I will say that one thing he stressed on, and which others have said as well, is that we must put people into the centre of our integrational arrangement.
It cannot just be about economic integration and trade, it has to be about the other areas that include functional co-operation and trade.
It’s a message that is resonating quite clearly with me and one that I will continue to pursue.
So that a business located here in Barbados should have the same ease of doing business in any member state as in his home state. And I would greatly facilitate cross-border investment and trade.
In some countries, for example, it takes so long to get a permit to do some things. How do we seek to address those processes that would make the business environment a lot better? It’s something we’re going to take on board.
 
So are you satisfied with Barbados’ leadership in CSME, since Barbados has lead responsibility for this entity?
LaRocque: Yes, I am satisfied. You have to recognize that what all our member states are faced with at this juncture – in terms of the impact of the global economic and financial crisis that took place in 2008, and right on the heels of that the CLICO and the BAICO issues, and now we have another crisis looming and we’re possibly facing another global recession – there are some challenges related to how quickly you may want to do things, and it’s not unique to Barbados at all.
All our member states are faced with those challenges; possibly one or two may be more prepared for them than others because of certain programmes they may have gone through prior. But under the circumstances, yes, I’m satisfied with the leadership of Barbados. I’m satisfied that Barbados brings to the table a perspective that is very worthy of consideration in terms of how things should go forward.
I think the way to tackle the aforementioned issues going forward is to continue to have dialogue, continue to have a greater understanding about them and seek to find the solutions collectively. At the end of the day we have to find the solutions because it is a community you’re trying to build that will allow our people to enjoy the benefits that the treaty provides.
 
 
You spoke of cross-border elements. With this in mind, how do you see the challenge of regional travel, those faced by the public and the three major players LIAT, Caribbean Airlines [CAL] and REDJet?
LaRocque: Everywhere I have gone I’ve been asked about regional travel and transportation. I’m going to admit upfront that’s going to be one of my biggest challenges. It’s a big problem!
How do you make travel so that it can be at the reach of the purse of the average citizens of the Community? I mean, if you’re building your community, think of it and Barbados as a whole; it’s easy to travel from one village and town to the next, but we’re separated by water, unlike Europe.
What I do know is that the solution has to be outside of the box. It cannot be the normal thing.
 
Have you made any effort to get other territories on board with the Caribbean Court of Justice [CCJ]?
LaRocque: Yes, I have spoken about it in the short period that I’ve been here . . . . I’m speaking to the issue as I go around, in that sense sensitizing people; and there are member states which are poised to make the step . . . .
I was asked . . . what I’d like to see at the end of my term. I would really hope that I would see all CARICOM member states participating in the appellate jurisdiction of the court. Our judges, for example Sir Dennis Byron, are of international repute as jurists. He [Sir Dennis] was the president of the International Criminal Tribunal in Rwanda; what better credential can you get?
Our Heads of Government and attorneys general have taken great pains in the work that they were doing to set up to CCJ to allay the concerns of persons regarding insulating the court from any interference.
If people take the time to see how that court is structured and to see the arm’s length distance between the court and any political directorate of the region, and then take into account the judges that we have in place . . . .
I think it is of concern to me that there are still persons out there who may be saying they are afraid that the court may be subjected to political  interference. That in itself doesn’t say much for what they think of our jurists, who are of global repute.
The court’s financing is in perpetuity, so one cannot withdraw money and say I’m not going to provide you with funding. The selection of judges is done by an independent body, and the Regional Judicial and Legal Services Commission is set up with persons from across various Bar associations.
So I’m prepared to work along with the court in its advocacy and with the Caribbean Law Institute, which has been doing quite a bit of work. I am prepared to throw my weight behind that . . . because the court is going to be the defining moment of how we begin to create our own jurisprudence.
 
Prime Minister Roosevelt Skerrit of Dominica recently revealed at the lecture in honour of the late Prime Minister David Thompson that of the 85 000 work permits issued between 2000 and June last year, over 60 000 of them went to non-CARICOM citizens. Your comment on this.
LaRocque: What I will say is that I’m very much aware that people who are moving throughout the Caribbean are doing so via the work permit system, which is not part of the CARICOM Treaty arrangement. In other words, the treaty doesn’t make provision for a work permit arrangement; it actually requires you to remove the work permit in certain areas that we are certifying, mainly the skilled nationals area.
If only 10 000 skilled certificates have been issued from inception to now, and if out of 85 000, some 60 000 work permits went to non-CARICOM citizens, it tells you the problem in itself does not rest with CSME, because the free movement of skills is part of the CSME.
 
How do you view Britain’s Prime Minister David Cameron’s threat to withdraw aid from countries that maintain anti-gay policies?
LaRocque: This broad statement, I think, is unfortunate when certain moral issues tend to be mixed with development issues. It is obvious, of course, that those who have the money will always try to impose one condition or another on you; but I think there has to be some recognition and sensitivity to what are purely moral issues, what are perceived by some to be moral issues, and otherwise.
If you’re providing someone with aid or money, you want to be sure it is used or spent efficiently and achieves its objectives. I do not think that aid should be used as a tool to impose any other sort of persuasion on anybody else. It’s a matter of principle.
 
With two upcoming elections on the same day, how are you dealing with that?
LaRocque: We will be sending observer missions to St Lucia and Guyana, and we recently sent a small observer mission to the British Virgin Islands. It is stretching us, but we are fortunate enough to get assistance from development partners who have an interest in good governance.
The Caribbean is a shining example of democracy at work, of peaceful transition of power, of regular elections and of vibrant debate leading up to elections. So we do find development partners who are willing to work with us to facilitate such observer missions, and I hope it is something we can continue and excel in.